do any musicians here get
Submitted by administrative ... on Thu, 2010-01-07 12:56.
Submitted by wolfgang on Thu, 2010-01-07 15:53.
do any musicians here get frustrated by not having any open minded muscians to jam with? i play alto sax and cant find anyone that will even listen to free jazz let alone wanna play it?!
hiya, Wolfgang
Well, yes, i think you're among friends on this one. Two points:
1) In my experience, the open minded musicians are probably sitting home thinking the same as you - if you live in or near a decent sized conurbation, i'd wager that there are people in there, but they're getting the same reaction as you are. I run a space here in Liverpool, UK, called The Gathering (allied to similar spaces in London and South Wales) - it's an open space for improvisation, which works well. Maybe you could start something similar?
2) Have a look at the cadavre esquis site (cast your eyes to the top right of this page) as a way of interacting with like-minded souls around the globe. I acknowledge that it's only recording, which isn't the same as having real folk in the room, but it is a lot of fun when done right (which it often is!).
btw, i moved your post, as it wasn't a response to the item about Paul Rutherford - it's an item in its own right.
phil hargreaves
whi music
cheers phil, well ive
cheers phil, well ive thought about putting on a monthly improv night but its hard to find venues that are intrested, ive left adverts on musician websites and in music shops to no reward, i live about 70 miles from london so it looks like i might have to travel!
difference
the difference with the Gathering is that it very much isn't a gig - it's a place for people to play. As such, the administrative requirements are a lot easier. If you're within hailing distance of London, you could maybe hit the London Gathering and get a feel for that one.
My finding is that there's people who like to do a bit of it (and not exclusively 'jazz' players either - adventurous rock and classical people are interested too), but who don't want to live in an exclusively improvised world. And as things stand, you only really need one collaborator to get things rolling.
You don't say in which direction you're 70 miles from London. Anyone reading this who lives near Wolfgang??
phil hargreaves
whi music
thanks i might check that
thanks i might check that out, im from south east kent.
South East Kent
Hi Wolfgang,
We recently started a free improv night at the Louis Armstrong in Dover. This is on a Monday night and at the moment is only featuring the Zen Bicycle Band every 4-6 weeks. I hadn't thought about an 'opn night' for free improvisers, but why not?
You can get in touch with me here or through the zen bicycle band website.
Dave
running spaces for improvised music
Phil,
Very interested to know how the Gathering operates.
This is a little old, but here’s some of my thoughts about running Stet Lab in Cork (please feel free to leave comments, criticisms, observations, questions or stories on the post):
Lab report 2007-2009: how to run an improvised music club
Best,
Han-earl (Stet Lab curator)
Gathering, operating
the blurb i've put on the website says:
"The Gathering is a space for improvisation, where musicians can be together and play what they see fit in the moment.
The Gathering is not a workshop, and no external structures will be imposed.
The Gathering is not a concert: everyone in the room is a participant, including those who may be listening.
The Gathering is not a rehearsal or recording session: it is the actual thing itself."
Basically, it's the same for all Gatherings, in that people show up and play: it is what it is, and if problems arise, then they get routed around. There's no performer/audience thing, and if you don't show up, it all still happens anyway, so no-one's under any pressure. Consequently there is a wide range of outcomes for Gatherings, and each one is different.
I should probably add that in Liverpool, we exist as part of an ecosystem of improvised/experimental music; there's places where you can put on more formal gigs, there are workshops etc, so it's just one aspect of what's there.
phil hargreaves
whi music
the gathering and the gathered
that's very interesting, phil. It actually sounds a lot like something that we have here in Brisbane, set up by Elliott Dalgleish, called the Mute Canary Project. Well, the regular weekly side of it anyway (more on that later).
Every Saturday night there's a kind of open house improvising thing going on at a big warehouse space from around 8 until around 10. Anybody can turn up and participate, in any way they choose, and for however long. There are no organised groupings and no really clear "audience/performer divide". For a while the sessions were recorded, and pieces selected out of those recordings, which were hosted on a website, but when the person who used to record us couldn't make it anymore, nobody could be found to take his place. The way you have described the Gatherings sounds very similar in many ways.
I used to attend regularly (almost every week) but the wheels started to fall off after about a year and I stopped going. Fewer and fewer people were turning up, and sometimes there were only two of us there the whole night. In the beginning we did have quite a large number of people coming in either to listen or to contribute in some other way, but later on the numbers reduced pretty drastically. I haven't been recently so I don't know if things have picked up since then. Another reason why the wheels started to fall off is that, as fewer and fewer people came, it changed from an improvisational space to more of a place for the few people who did turn up to rehearse music for other projects (usually written music). This was, I think, partly caused by the vast disparity between mute canary the weekly gathering and mute canary the concert performance (we also did some performances at various jazz festivals here). the weekly gathering was totally open-minded and open-ended, while the concert performance was tightly controlled, organised, circumscribed and hierarchical, involving folios of sheet music and months of planning. I suppose another reason for why this happened would be that here there isn't so much of an 'ecosystem' for improvised/experimental music, and there aren't many other opportunities to put on more formal gigs with certain people/groups set to be playing on certain nights. Like I said, though, I haven't been recently so I don't know if things have picked up since then.
interesting
yeah, i think that the London Gathering has lasted like it has because that hasn't been allowed to happen, ie it can't become a performance or a rehearsal. It sounds to me like the open sessions and the orchestra should've had different names (and separate rehearsal schedule as well), as they're not the same beast. The large scale orchestra spin-off from the Liverpool Gathering is called the Infinite Monkey Orchestra.
I would add that not many people coming isn't necessarily a recipe for disaster, mind: one of the most memorable sessions we had was when only i showed up with two guitarists - neither of whom had brought guitars, so we had my saxes/flute plus a ukele and a strumstick. A disaster on paper, and for a gig, as those latter two are very quiet instruments (and i'm not! ;-)), but after about 20 minutes the whole session took off, in a very quiet but intense sort of way.
phil hargreaves
whi music
Hi Wolfgang, it depends just
Hi Wolfgang, it depends just how open minded you are!
There are lots of interesting improvisors in the London noise scene.
Of course there is already a healthy trade between free jazz and noise, which I thought was captured well in Evan Parker's Free Noise tour in 2007.
I play in this band http://www.myspace.com/sloppysecondsbanned and we are always looking for collaborators.
At the moment we are particularly looking for someone to give it some real fire-lung.
You would need to wear a rabbit mask too obviously.
Here is some footage of us tearing it up at the UK Noise Conference in 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY_X7SxLGbk
I know you're not based in London, but we're doing a show this Friday 22nd January at The Grosvenor in Stockwell. Pop along if you can!
Cheers
Max